2 things

Weckl hasn't evolved? I could mention many things here, but just listen to his FOOT work on the last 2-3 albums. Incredible! (Try 'Cultural Concurrence', for example.) When he made 'Back to Basics', re: foot-work he said "I don't really have any demos to give you". I bet he does NOW.

Smith is stiff? C'mon. I've heard less SS than DW or VC, but all of it has been damned impressive. If you haven't heard his "The Drum Also Waltzes" solo (a modernization of Max Roach's, which I also have), I'd be happy to email or AIM it(them) to you.

The whole VC vs. SS vs. DW strand is kinda goofy. It's like Rembrandt vs. Picasso vs. Dali. I know which one is my favorite, and why. But I realize it's 'just my opinion'.

I'm sorry to report that I did NOT get to PASIC, as previously posted. Major bummer.

"The whole VC vs. SS vs. DW strand is kinda goofy. It's like Rembrandt vs. Picasso vs. Dali. I know which one is my favorite, and why. But I realize it's 'just my opinion'."

Agreed!!! But there will always be two classes of people in the world: those who constantly divide the people of the world into two classes, and those who do not. -Robert Benchley

Helpm. - "Picasso vs. Rembrandt vs. Dali" - true, true! - like I said, "KK vs. G vs. Rodan vs. Gorgo vs. Ghidorah," or whatever[!], or "Chopin vs. Bach vs. Mozart vs. Mendelssohn, etc.!" U get da picture.
I didnt get to go to PASIC, either...MAJOR bummer! - didja SEE that line-up, 4 Pete's sake?!! [& just who the h** is "Pete," anyway?!]

Pocket - great quote by Benchley. Reminds me a little of another 1: "Great people talk about ideas, average people talk about things, small people talk about other people"... [not referring to constructive critical comparison, b4 it gets to that, tho [img]wink.gif[/img] ...]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 05, 2002 03:35 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

Its interesting to note that Body mechanics has stayed out of this conversation. Everybody is built differently and executes differently. Whether you LOOK smooth as you execute something is meaningless, if your content has no emotional presence.

What would you rather have, a rough looking player with connection to the music or a Mr mechanical.. no soul?

The first time i saw SS in a visual context was on gary chaffees video. His Lightness on the kit blew me away literally.
The one thing about SS is: I dont like his sound, and that has a big part in how something touches me Or... makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, goose bumps ect.
I'm not a SS fan as i am of other players but, his style and execution seems pretty flexable too me and, he's a great musician no-less.

The first time i saw weckl was on a chick corea Live at the Maintainance shop concert with... corea, weckl and pattitucci. He flowed in the same way that i saw in smith later on but, he's looser like,... in a floppy toy.

Who's style is better? it doesn't matter.

If you look as another example Neil peart who is another gruber pupil, he is even stiffer than SS or DW So,... body mechanics MUST have something to do with it or, time spent HONING yourself. imho

Weckl to me just flows easily, so easily its awe insiring but, i dont know or have not seen anyone else that, flows like he does... YET.

The part about repeating themselves is quite funny though. Does anyone really think that musicians don't regurgitate the same old stuff?
[People earn a living on 4/4!]

Michael brecker, one of the most prolific session musicians EVER, plays the same stuff he did from 20 yr ago!
Jazz has now been disected to the point where its been stated that, Improvisation is about 10% of the tune, the rest is Patterns.
2cents done.*phew*

Me2 - I agree w/ u about the "musician 'repeating' him/[her]self" - every musician will have something about their play'g [whether lix, chops, phrases, approach, ideas, whatever] which, after hearing that particular musician over a period of time/record'gs, becomes a distinctly identifiable part of their unique "sound." It's just naturally bound to happen. I think pretty much every1 has this trait - I don't think any human being is exempt from it completely; it's simply the natural state of the way things are in life & reality; there's no real gettin around it. [Guys like Erskine might be an exception, however!! [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img] He's the ultimate chameleon!] [& I'm not talking about judging by a studio session, which is really some1 else's [the employer's] criteria - I'm talkin about their unbridled playing.] If I were to listen to a "taste-test" [of sorts] of several drummers on diff. trax, I could [PROB.!] tell u if it were either DW, VC, SS, VDon, GNov, WKen, OHak, CWack, GHusb, KCov, DDiC, the 2 MM's, GBiss, or DChamb - simply because i've listened to many of these guys relentlessly over the past 18 yrs. or so [as well as a lot of other cats]. Guys at this level are going to have someth'g about their play'g that is uniquely identifiable to the 'returning' ear.

But heck - similarly, even I have, I think [ - I certainly hope & pray!!! [LOL] [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] ] elements in my playing that sound like my heroes! [Much like my heroes have theirs: for ex., VC to TWms/AMouzon, etc.]

Me2- very good thoughts on this thread!
This discussion reminds me a lot of what I hear on sports talk radio- big sports fan here. Guys will mull over different quarterbacks- who's the best and why...
It's interesting and has its merit because there are 24 hours in each day and the mind likes to stay active. The mind likes to compare and categorize. It likes to scrutinize and analyze what the heart is interested in. So, it can be a worthwhile use of one's mental energies to a point.
Body mechanics is interesting. Why did Dan Marino look so fluid and smooth. Anyone remember Billy Kilmer? I used to see him on those NFL films B4 ESPN Classic. Unreal ability to throw, like Jonny U. Kilmer reminded me of Omar Hakim on the Sting Live footage, Bring On the Night- you all should know exactly what clip I mean. Smooth, graceful, fluid, effortless. Yet, other QB's appear stiff (ala Smith)yet have great pass-completion percentages. Some have guns and can throw 80 yards, others are pocket passers.
Then there's Jeff George! One of the most genetically gifted passers who's internal issues kept him from greatness. He had poor relational skills and in FB, you gotta play on a team.
Bottom line: maximize the cards God has given to each of us; strategize, plan, aim, be diligent and focused...have a coach of sorts to help you see the angles that only others can see. You reap what you sow! Stand up to yourself...look deeply into your own eye and work on the big log. Success always seems to come to those who persevere over time, who control the big log within.
This is what's cool about drummers- they are more free to rap about their craft.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 07, 2002 08:26 PM: Message edited by: PocketPlayer ]</font>

Alright! Awesome post, Pocket. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

hey guys....

i just picked up the randy waldman cd that u told me about........very nice indeed. i was however a little sceptical when i heard that it was cheesy tv theme tunes......but once u get past the first minute the plaing is as expected brilliant.....similar to the GRP big band stuff and the dave grusin big band stuff..........as far as vinne is concerned.......again very pleasant.....but, with this style anyway, he is not as good as weckl. the taste is just not there. even his drums sound like cardboard.....and things like sound are just as important to me on a cd. for example i just picked up a bunny brunnel cd for like ?10 ($12) and it has people like bunny himself who is a great bass player and mike stern and brian auger......but you just have to hear the way the drums are recorded........awful!! i cant actually listen to it....i'll have to chuck it away. the drumming itself was ok and i possibly could have discovered some more stuff on the disc but i cant listen to it........

anyway.....thanks for the recommendation its a lovely cd....but i believe dave is better at this sort of stuff.......have you checked out the GRP big band stuff???